ROBERT: So what is the licking doing then? In this episode, originally aired in 2012, we put nature and nurture on a collision course and discover how outside forces can find a way inside us, and chan You don't think that they should have their children back?]. I just didn't think. The neural chemical signal that gets activated during licking, is serotonin. Then she goes, "Oh wait, I didn't give birth to you. The bit of DNA that will give this baby when it grows up the instincts to be nice to its baby, and lick that baby. CARL ZIMMER: But there were a lot of skeptics. The cheapest estimate is the work that needs to be done in 14 days. I initially felt very hopeful and excited about this research because it seems to suggest that a body, one body can respond to an environment and change and be flexible in a way we didn't think was possible. You're now hearing Lamarck's name invoked these days because there are things beyond genes that we pass down to our children. One-fourth? What happens, it'll get stuck to one little part of the DNA and now that little bit of DNA And these things are called, apparently, methyl groups. FRANCES CHAMPAGNE: You have to do that for five hours a day for six consecutive days. And again, Barbara thinks, "Come on, but if this little girl is here, she should be with her brother and sister. A little village? More brain cells? How do these simple little traits get passed forward? But if you've got a mom who licks you. ROBERT: You wonder, where did that come from? Find ratings and reviews for the newest movie and TV shows. FRANCES CHAMPAGNE: You have to look at one cage, say, are they licking? All these chemicals racing by crashing into it, sticking, and one of the bits that gets covered up is that little bit that makes the proteins that create a maternal instinct. Well, its offensive. Right below the headlines says, "Scientist's great discovery which may change us all.". They lived longer lives, something like 30 years on average. JAD: That's what good rat mothers do, they lick their babies a lot. JAD: Don't you see, somehow the mother's tongue is getting all the way down in there and going [mumbles] and messing with the baby's DNA. So here's what you're going to notice. He said, "If you were a boy, and you starve between the ages of 9 and 12, and then you went on to become a father, then a grandfather, your grandkids". SAM KEAN: Really slowly, gradually, achingly slowly. You've got these toads who hate water. And he said, "Barbara, I'm not buying a school bus." CARL ZIMMER: He was born in 1880 in Vienna, Jewish family. So here's what you're going to notice. He was mighty skeptical. But this was a really, really tough place to grow up. It's such a surprising result. JAD: Hey, wait. Suddenly you're marked. So, of course the folks at the Vivarium asked him. The results are obvious to you. You know, the fact is that taking care of animals, trying to keep them alive in a building is not an easy thing, especially if it's 1903. And in 1989, when the story we're telling now started, she was living in California, in Orange County. Who are you? PAT: And in 1989, when the story we're telling now started, she was living in California, in Orange County. PAT: Just a little. You dont really say it to yourself that way, but yeah. And so, you could only see one nuptial pad, and it all comes down to thisand all of that was just about to fall apart. You know, like if you're abused as a kid, you were more likely to abuse your kid, but still, you got to wonder. I went to the hospital and picked him up. ", PAT: In other words, "Could I pay women who have drug problems to stop having babies?". I mean, it's pretty common but like, here's a for instance, my dad from my entire life had this thing where if someone was whistling, he would. And then that baby would stretch and stretch, and it would give a little more stretching to its baby. JAD: Everybody we talked to seems to think there's something really interesting going on here. We inherited this beloved show that we first fell in love with as listeners. If you're a starving boy between 9 to 12 years old, now it doesn't matter a whole lot what happens to you after this, your grandchildren will have one-quarter the risk of heart disease. I don't think that puts me in the same category as Hitler. Push yourself and you got it.". a rat mother licking her baby can have such a profound effect, basically change the expression of the genes in the baby, well that's hopeful. ROBERT: And then the next one after that. PAT: Yeah. According to Darwin, life and changes are ruled by chance. You know, just take a little peek for themselves, and every time SAM KEAN: Kammerer said no, they were his specimens. What does it look like? PAT: And I told Destiny I was thinking about this and asked her about it. Yeah, there you go. [foreign language]. Yeah. PAT: When you first hear about this, what goes through your mind? So then over the next 70 some odd years, Lamarck basically became the poster boy for, like, the big dumb idea, the idea that you want to believe in but that you know isn't true. And I was a waitress, I worked for IHOP for over 30 years. PAT: As Barbara made the rounds on the daytime talk shows, the reaction was split right down the middle. ROBERT: [laughs] We now know that thats not the case. PAT: This great. OLOV BYGREN: The results are there. And were trying to think about how do we keep it the same in a lot of ways, but also how do we let it grow into something beyond what it was originally built to be. LULU: In a very real way, we've been thinking a lot about inheritance. Like shed give the women a choice. DESTINY HARRIS: Oh my goodness. But along with the support came attacks, particularly as drug-addicted women began to sign up. [laughs]. PAT: Could you just tell us what you are doing now? CARL ZIMMER: And he makes a very careful study of this hand. If your grandpa didn't starve, instead he lived through great times. Like have you ever had one of those moments where you suddenly are your dad and it catches you off guard? They both say that they actually often forget that they're not biologically related. That you're just renaming it. JAD: [laughs] Youre just just judo, that's all this is. LULU: Oh actually, real thing, before we go, Latif. I could have turned out like some of the other kids. Stick around. Its gonna get messy. Something happens on the molecular level. So she told me Barbara had another baby and Did we want it? It is hosted by Lulu Miller and Latif Nasser. The kingdom archive. We talked to her for a little while and At a certain point the social worker pulls out a stack of papers. SAM KEAN: And so, they just had to hold on for the entire winter. And very often, one of them will just go crashing into the DNA and it'll stick there like a barnacle or a glob of peanut butter. JAD: These are four kids from the same birth mother? The right hand had been cut off for microscopic slides. He is passionate about scholarly writing, World History, and Political sciences. And he says, "This isn't a nuptial pad, it looks darkened but that's just ink.". Sample Page; ; SAM KEAN: That was the implication, except Kammerer tried to defend himself by saying CARL ZIMMER: "Do you think I'm a Dummkopf, or an idiot, because that's what I would have to be if I left a forgery with ink standing around openly in the laboratory where so many of my enemies would have entry?". Plus, find other cool things we did in the past like miniseries, music videos, short films and animations, behind-the-scenes features, Radiolab live shows, and more. JAD: If they see methyl groups sitting on that bit of DNA, they are pissed. We need to oblige the constraints of WNYC copyright arrangements and apologise for any inconveniences caused. Move on to the next cage yes, no? Then, Carl told us about this research that showed JAD: Well, he couldn't quite remember the details. This is nice and quiet. MICHAEL MEANEY: So the great rat nightmare comes true where the females become their mothers. JAD: You got your good parents and your bad parents. I should add too. Isaiah would sleep and he would scream. If Barbara had gotten to Destiny's birth mom, Destiny, Kalia, this moment, none of it would exist. If you were a boy in verkalix between the ages of 9 and 12 years old, that's the window, 9 to 12, you're a boy, and then we have one of those terribly rough winters, and you're eating much less than normal. The kingdom archive. You must have internet access to do this). Thank you so much for your interest in Radiolab. And I told Destiny I was thinking about this and asked her about it. Well, that's the good news, but unfortunately there is some bad news here. ROBERT: So then the one that's in trouble, so thats one of one of eight? So, in the end, where do you come down on this? I think that's where Lamarck's ideas can be woven in and make some sense. His example with humans was a blacksmith. Really slowly, gradually, achingly slowly. And then, Michael just launched into this thing. JAD: Do you have any theories for how this tongue is tickling the DNA, or whatever it's doing? Inheritance Radiolab Podcast Genetics Homework Assignment Homework assignment on the Radiolab podcast 'Inheritance', developed for a college-level cell biology class. You must have internet access to do this). You know, when smart people say, you know, "There's no such thing as nature and nurture it's only interaction of the two," You're like, "What the hell does that mean?" As a parent, you are a tiny blip in a very, very, long story. OLOV BYGREN: The results are quite obvious. It means what if grandpa has a bad day? Its so good that it makes you not want to trash the house, you know what I mean? This was a really radical place at the time because you have to remember that people studying animals up till now, they were basically studying preserved specimens, and so on. RADIOLAB Podcast "Inheritance" Homework Assignment Name: Rohan Desai PSUID: 9 6241 8529 Listen to the first three stories of the "Inheritance" Radiolab Podcast (Control + click on link to access podcast. Move on to the next cage, yes, no? I'm trying to remember. Peanut butter, there we go. BARBARA HARRIS: I decided to have a press conference in my front yard to announce what I was doing. ", SAM KEAN: "They can respond to the environment.". I ended up finding myself really conflicted about it. CARL ZIMMER: And he says, "This isn't a nuptial pad, it looks darkened but that's just ink.". PAT'S DAD: Calling in to help read the credits. Then, Carl told us about this research that showed Well, he couldn't quite remember the details. That you can, somehow, by just being nice to them, reading them stories, or whatever, that you can somehow break them free of all that. I think the Swedish data are really, really strong, and very reliable. JAD: What you see in the records, is that one year PEJK MALINOVSKI: 100 liters. It takes a while. ROBERT: Because the Soviets, they believe in Karl Marx's idea that human beings were an improvable species, that if you can change the conditions around people, you change the people. The question that was stuck in my head right then was, "If you could choose between being born knowing that your life might end up like that and not like it is now, or not been born at all, what would you have done?". LULU: And were trying to think about how do we keep it the same in a lot of ways, but also how do we let it grow into something beyond what it was originally built to be. JAD: And then, Michael just launched into this thing. The neural chemical signal that gets activated during licking, is serotonin. And he said, "Barbara, I'm not buying a school bus." The results make it probable that our descendants will learn more quickly what we know well, will execute more easily what we have accomplished with great effort, will be able to withstand what injured us almost to the point of death. And that number, by the way, has grown a lot. JAD: Just to be sure, we asked Frances Champagne what she thinks of this data. PAT: So Barbara and her son got in the car and drove across town to the foster home where Destiny had been living for the past eight months. That, in a sort of ass backward way was Michael's question. Just until they hatch and then 'til they go off. In this episode, originally aired in 2012, we put nature and nurture on a collision course and discover how outside forces can find a way inside us, and change not just our hearts and minds, but the basic biological blueprint that we pass on to future generations.Support Radiolab by becoming a member of The Lab today. She and I snuck away from the children into her office. When rats have more of this protein, they will act more motherly. I just saw them as child abusers. Lamarck said, You wanna know how a giraffe got its long neck?, One day this giraffe, mother giraffe, lets say, was looking up in the tree and saw some fruit, and had to stretch he neck, and stretch again. ], I'm going to go out into the streets and offer addicted women money to use birth control. She'll be two in January. Can you say oh my goodness? JAD: And very often, one of them will just go crashing into the DNA and it'll stick there like a barnacle or a glob of peanut butter. Three of them ended up in other foster homes and seem to have done pretty well, but one of them DESTINY HARRIS: Okay, well of them, don't really know what happened to her. Who are you? I said, "This will be the last one. At this really marvelous place called the Vivarium. Once a kid is born, their genetic fate is pretty much sealed. SAM KEAN: And, you know, there was kind of antisemitism growing at this time, so he thought that someone had framed him, and six weeks after Nobel published his results in Nature, Kammerer sent a letter to Moscow. More information about Sloan at. I wont say too much more except it includes one of my favorite kind of scientific parables that like Ive ever heard. How much of you will echo into the future and how much of you won't? ROBERT: Well, that's the good news, but unfortunately there is some bad news here. PAT: Barbara has this drawer in her desk. PAT: And she says, one day, this idea just came to her. So for Isaiah, being born was like just being cut off. BARBARA HARRIS: Yeah, the social worker called and told me the mother had given birth. As he's doing his rounds, he stops by the midwife toad terrarium, he looks down at that little male toad with grapes stuck to his legs and he wonders, "How adaptable is that little guy?" [WILL: Hi, this is Will, calling from Northumberland, England. And Destiny says she doesn't really care DESTINY HARRIS: I got these genes from somewhere, but I kind of feel like she was a surrogate, like she carried me for my real mom. But according to Kammerer, here's what happened when he heated up the toads little cage. Visited Kammerer's lab when Kammerer wasn't there. But what exactly Maybe you can explain this to me, Robert. And when methyl groups stick to that part of the DNA, the maternal instinct is effectively turned off. We had an expression here, "Dig where you stand." You're finishing college, right? [ARCHIVAL Clip, News: She's offering $200. PAT: So we did stop. CARL ZIMMER: More information about Sloan at JAD: Yeah, we're exploring questions of lwhat can you pass down to your kids and their kids? When I started spending some time with Destiny, Barbara's 22-year-old daughter. JAD: It's off-limits. In any case, these books tell you when each of these folks died, how they died. CARL ZIMMER: Well, there was an expert on reptiles named G. Kingsley Noble. ROBERT: Well, so here's the thing. I mean, I'm married to a Black man. Who gave Destiny her first checkup told Barbara That she was delayed and she was always going to be delayed because of her prenatal neglect. In this episode, originally aired in 2012, we put nature and nurture on a co We went to the foster home and went in. One parent stretching isnt going to do anything, see thats the bummer of Darwinian evolution. Radio Lab: Into the Brain of a Liar March 6, 2008 We all lie once a day or so, according to most studies. I mean, when you look at the records, you don't see huge spikes in mortality. So now, the genes can make the proteins that make the rats a good mom? PAT: Last I heard she was living on the streets in LA. JAD: And thats wrong [laughs].Thats not how it works. And as of 11:01 a.m. on Tuesday, when were recording this, we have not broken the show. But she says, you can tell right away, just by looking, that some rat moms don't lick their kids a lot. The reason they're more aroused is that the mom's licking activates the release of adrenaline and noradrenaline in the pup. So. You know, inside these cells, in the center, coiled up in little spools, is the DNA. Like, I mean, as far as positives can go, I think I hit the jackpot. Plus, find other cool things we did in the past like miniseries, music videos, short films and animations, behind-the-scenes features, Radiolab live shows, and more. You feel kind of hemmed in by what your grandfather did? Females seem to hate laying eggs in the water, but is that the end of the story? MICHAEL MEANEY: Mom's licking activates serotonin. JAD: Now the Sweden story from our last segment left us both feeling a little strange. It's a guided audio tour through cities where Radiolab Ken Burns and others. JAD: Anyhow, so you got this guy, Paul Kammerer, who's good with animals. ROBERT: If you were a great rat mommy, what would you be doing with your rat baby? Big questions are. There were four girls and Barbara and Destiny told me that a few years ago they found three of them and they all either were in college or had finished college. She'll be two in January. But the story he told us begins around 25 years ago. JAD: I dont know. He thought that because theyre swinging hammers all day, they got big bulky muscles, and then theyd pass the muscles to their children. LULU: Yeah, thats it. 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